Nominating when it's a free ball

[Steve Butler]

Just a reminder that if your opponent has fouled and you are left with a free ball;

You do not have to verbally nominate which ball you are playing for if it is obvious to the referee which ball you are aiming for (eg. if the blue is in the middle of the table and there are no other balls near it, it would be obvious that you are playing for that ball).

If the referee is not sure which ball you are aiming for he/she should ask you to nominate in which case you must state verbally which ball you are playing for.  If you do not do this when asked by the referee it is a foul.

I hope this makes sense because there are still referees calling fouls on players who are not verbally stating which ball they played for when it is clearly obvious.

To avoid any doubt, I would recommend all players to verbally nominate anyway to avoid any embarassment where referees are not too familiar with the rules.

Here is the rule (note part b):

12. Nominated Ball
(a) A nominated ball is the object ball which the striker declares, or indicates to the satisfaction of the referee, he undertakes to hit with the first impact of the cue-ball.
(b) If requested by the referee, the striker must declare which ball he is on.

[Mike Langdon]

Steve. Just a scenario which hopefully wouldn't happen but just wondering what your take on it would be.  Player A is leading by 34 points with just one red left and is at the table.  As he addresses his shot to pot the final red his clothing touches the green ball and the referee calls foul however player A doesn't get up from the shot and knocks in the red.  Player B gets the 4 point penalty but now needs a snooker due to player A's unsporting behaviour.  Of course it might not be unsporting if he cues just as the ref calls the foul but if it was potted say a couple of seconds after the foul was called would the frame be awarded to or would it just be tough luck on player B?

Mike

[Ross Wilkin]

WOW!! thats a good un Mike!! you should send these in to bbc when snooker is on tv! I know its not for me to answer but maybe itd be nice in that unusual situation to replace the red where it was similar to foul and a miss? just an idea...

[Robert Wright]

Surely this is unsporting behavior and the ref should award the frame to player b. In my last 2 league matches i have hit the white whilst lining up and these were not seen by either ref. I called them on myself as it would not be in the spirit of the game not too. I won one of the matches and lost the other, but it wasn't anything to do with giving away 4 points for the fouls.

[Steve Butler]

Steve. Just a scenario which hopefully wouldn't happen but just wondering what your take on it would be.  Player A is leading by 34 points with just one red left and is at the table.  As he addresses his shot to pot the final red his clothing touches the green ball and the referee calls foul however player A doesn't get up from the shot and knocks in the red.  Player B gets the 4 point penalty but now needs a snooker due to player A's unsporting behaviour.  Of course it might not be unsporting if he cues just as the ref calls the foul but if it was potted say a couple of seconds after the foul was called would the frame be awarded to or would it just be tough luck on player B?

Mike

Taking the latter point first, if the player was on his final backswing when the foul was called, and it could not be expected that the player could react to the call before striking the cue-ball, then I would judge that as the same as if the foul had occurred during the actual shot.

He will be 30 in front with 27 on the table and player B needs a snooker. (* see below.)

In your earlier scenario, where the player had ample time to get up from the shot but played it nevertheless, there is another course of action available to the referee, above warning for ungentlemany conduct – which, on its own, does not prevent his opponent from needing snookers in the frame in progress, even though it will mean a further case of misconduct will give frame/match to the opponent.

The other course of action is to apply the rule which states that, once a foul has been committed, a player's turn ends immediately. I would conceive that it is in order, therefore, to consider Player A's turn as at an end as soon as the foul is called; therefore the 'shot' that he played can come under 'ball(s) moved by other than striker' which is adequately covered by rule and states that the ball(s) so moved will be replaced by the referee.

* In these circumstances, where a player pockets the final red and accidentally makes a foul at the same time (and I stress accidentally), the player has not actually gained an advantage by making the foul. If he had potted the red but not fouled, he would be 35 up with 27 on, and a shot at the colour to boot. As it is, he is only 31 up with 27 on, opponent to play. So in fact, he has gained an advantage by knocking the red in, but gained a disadvantage by making the foul.

[Mike Langdon]

cool....i hope the ref during this imaginary match was quicker making his decision than you  :laugh:

October 29th 2009!!!!

[Steve Butler]

I had to seek advice from a more knowledgable source!

[Daniel]

Interesting.

I remember playing once and my opponent fouled then let go of his cue in frustration.  The cue moved the balls and left me with less chance of winning the frame as they were no longer pottable.  He didn't let go of the cue with the intention of moving the balls but he still gained an advantage from making a second foul.  We couldn't work out how to play it and I lost the frame.  Do you think as the foul had been made then the balls should have been replaced as it was my strike?  I can't remember whether the balls were still moving from the foul but when he dropped his cue he had already had his strike.

[Steve Butler]

Yes, they should have been put back because he was no longer the striker when he moved the balls (it was your turn as soon as he fouled) as per the following rule:

Section 3
15. Ball Moved by Other than Striker
If a ball, stationary or moving, is disturbed other than by the striker, it shall be re-positioned by the referee to the place he judges the ball was, or would have finished, without penalty.
(a) This Rule shall include cases where another occurrence or person, other than the striker's partner, causes the striker to move a ball.
(b) No player shall be penalised for any disturbance of balls by the referee.

:thumbup:

[Daniel]

Thanks Steve.

I know it's sad, but sometimes it's really tough to forget a moment when a frame might have gone the other way if only you had said what you were thinking at the time.  I may well have lost the frame anyhow but now I'll never know... :laugh: