Survey Results

[Steve Butler]

To make things simpler and to more accurately reflect the proposed new format;

the current format of 6 singles frames and 2 pairs frames shall hereafter be referred to as The 8 Frame Format;

the proposed format of 6 singles frames shall hereafter be referred to as The 6 Frame Format.

I think this is necessary because a few people seemed to think that the proposed new format would only allow 3 players to play 2 frames each when in fact it will allow 4 players to play - 2 playing 2 frames each and 2 playing 1 frame each.



Extraordinary General Meeting to be held on 8 April 2010

All persons present will be asked to vote YES or NO to the following proposal:

"A new set of rules will be written for The 6 Frame Format for the 2010/11 season.  The new set of rules will be drawn up by the League Secretary and may be amended at any time without the need for a meeting, subject to the approval of the Committee."

If The 6 Frame Format gets the go-ahead, we will have two different playing formats running alongside each other next season and clubs will have a choice how many teams they wish to enter in each format.

[Alan Cunningham]

On the 6 frame format I thought the idea was that if they only had 1 team they could register 6 (or more) players and they would then have the option to play 6 singles if they wanted to.

[Steve Butler]

Allowing 6 players to play goes against what we are trying to do, ie. create more teams and divisions.  If we allow 6 players to play then clubs are less likely to split their team(s) in two.  There will be no incentive for clubs to enter more teams.

I also think that we would probably see teams doing what they do now in the current format.  Currently, in important games, teams tend to play 6 players with the strongest 2 players at each venue playing in the pairs.  I believe that they would do exactly the same in the new format, ie. they would drop their 3 weakest players and their 3 strongest players would play 2 frames each.  This will make it virtually impossible to handicap a team accurately.

6 players would also have to travel in two cars, whereas 3 or 4 players can get in one car.  Think of our planet!

I would suggest that if a team wants to play 6 players they should enter The 8 Frame Format.

The 6 Frame Format is more suited to teams who will have the same 3 or 4 players available every week, just like the Nottingham 6 Reds Super League.

[Mike Langdon]

I totally agree with you Steve....we can't allow 6 player teams to enter the new 6 frame format for the very reasons you have given.  You have given all the Nottingham clubs the best of both options and this option would be a disaster for the traditionalists who want to continue to play the current 8 frame format as there is likely to only be 1 division for the 8 frame format.

The choice is quite simple....split the current team in two and enter 2 sides into the 6 frame format or stay exactly as you are playing the current 8 frame format.

Mike

[Alan Cunningham]

Our Div 1 squad are quite happy and in favour of splitting into 2 x '4 man squads' and playing the 6 frame format and I thought the Div 2 team would be the same. However, if we cant register and play 6 players to keep everyone happy, we might have to reconsider, will have to have a word with Andy.  
Only being able to select from a regular pool of 6 players (on several occasions this season we have had to call on substitutes from the 1st team) we dont have enough to split and make 2 teams AND as we really prefer to '2 frame option', would we be allowed to register 6 players but only use any 4 in one night ?.

[Steve Butler]

I think that's an excellent compromise Alan.

We could perhaps have a rule which allows teams to register more than four players subject to the approval of the Committee.  The team would have to demostrate to the satisfaction of the Committee why they could not form two teams from those 6 players.  We would have to limit the number of registered players to 6 though because if they have any more than that then they would surely be able to play in The 8 Frame Format.

:thumbup:

[Mike Langdon]

of course if only people could see the benefits of being able to play reserves then Arnold could enter 4 teams no problem.  Of course with most sides splitting therefore having at least 2 teams themselves they may see the benifits this time around.

Arnold CD A...CW, GS & JF (Div1)
Arnold CD B...MB, JN, BK (Div 2)
Anold CD A Reserves...SK, RT, KW, AC (Div3)
Arnold CD B Reserves...KC, PE, etc etc (Div4)

So you have a reserve team playing in a lower division which the 1st team can call upon when a man down.  The reserve team can't play in the same division as the team it supports and can't meet in the cup.

Makes perfectly good sense to me, as it allows the really good players in the 1st team to be guaranteed 2 frames each and when one of them is not available it allows an understudy to step in and gain experience playing in the top divisions.

Mike

[Alan Cunningham]

I just dont agree with the substitutions situation.

Originally clubs were only represented by one team. Then the like of Arnold and Pegasus decided to play 2 teams "A" & "B" in Divs 1 & 2 respectively. The 'old' rule of playing 3 times in the higher grade and then not being allowed to return to your 'lower' team was only just acceptable but then Bulwell also created an extra team but then that team got promoted. This meant another re-write of the rules. Last season the substitutes rule came in - where players could swap and change between teams with no penalty - and even play for 2 teams (of the same club) on the same night. This was frowned on by lots of teams but we at Arnold and I'm sure Pegasus would not have been able to compete in the League when sometimes we couldnt even get 5 players.

This is why I put forward the "6 frame,(minimum)4-man-squad" idea, where all squads were to be registered and there were to be no substitutions and swapping and changing.

Of our 6 players - one will not play away because he goes to the club as a social night with his dad, another is an 'on-call' fireman and if called out half way through frame he would have to concede it and the 3rd player is a Nationwide bus driver so never know when he is going to be available - this would be our plea to the committee to register a 6 man squad.

[Robert Wright]

Sorry to put it like this but it's all a farce. If you paticipate in a league you don't expect different teams to be playing different formats or players. I think that the NHSL needs to devise a format that suits all teams and stick with it. The only change to that is if it didn't work, or needed rule changes to make it more user friendly. Using substitues from another team devalues the team that they play for usually. We are only here because the "A" team might need a substitute at some time. It doesn't promote team spirit. It doesn't make "lesser" teams push themselves to become better teams and win promotion. 

Having said all that i still think that 3 man 2 frame teams are a good thing. I put it to my teams and they rejected it as they prefer the 4 man 1 frame aggregate score, home and away, format which we use in the NNIA and BDSL. It's their league and if that is what the majority want i will administer it for them as long as they want me too.

As one league secretary to another i would like to support Steve in all his endeavours to secure the NHSL to the viable vibrant league that it is  now, but it needs some tweeking to make it better for all.

[Alan Cunningham]

I agree with what Bob says (see below) - if you only have one team/squad that is fine. BUT, Steve is doing a brilliant job - trying to promote local snooker into the next generation and people want to go forward and create more teams/interest.

We are only here because the "A" team might need a substitute at some time. It doesn't promote team spirit. It doesn't make "lesser" teams push themselves to become better teams and win promotion.

[Mike Langdon]

fair enough. 

[Daniel]

Is the committee even considering the possibility of playing the 6 frame format on Weds and 8 frame format Tuesdays?

It would remove the need to worry about the substitutes thing if players normally playing on Weds (6 frame format) could turn out on a Tuesday in emergencies and vice versa.

e.g. I want to play the 6 frame format but would not mind turning out for another team once in a while if they were unable to raise a team.  That way it won't effect your regular team if you support a team in the other format AND you don't devalue your division and team.

Would that help you at Arnold Alan?

Sorry to throw ANOTHER thought into the mix after what's happened but Bobs suggestion has some merit.  It might even attract players from NNIA like Bob to enter a team as there is no clash with their league night.  I can think of a player or two from both leagues who MAY want to play on Weds in the 6 frame format which would mean even more teams and more charity money.  Remember BDSL have already turned down the new format but some of their players want to play it still.

If it's too late for next season then fair enough, but I'd like to hear what the committee think of the idea if only for future seasons.  I'm convinced that there are enough of us interested  in both leagues to do it on a Weds which would leave the current formats to continue as they are.

How many players are open to this idea?  Are there any NNIA or NHSL players who think this is sensible.  Is there scope for a joint NNIA/BDSL/NHSL competition on Weds?

Again Sorry to throw this in late... :sorry:

[Alan Cunningham]

Yep, another reasonable idea for the pot.
But I know, that because of other club members committments, WE wouldnt be able to play any 'team' snooker on any other night but Tuesdays.
I also think the being of the NAZARETH HOUSE SNOOKER LEAGUE is already too fragmented and I wouldnt like to see many more diversities.

[Steve Butler]

Thanks for your input Daniel.

There is certainly nothing unusual about leagues playing matches on different nights of the week, lots of leagues around the country play matches on more than one night.  For example, the Saffron Walden Snooker League plays matches on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays and they have both a 3 player format and a 4 player format.

"A new set of rules will be written for The 6 Frame Format for the 2010/11 season.  The new set of rules will be drawn up by the League Secretary and may be amended at any time without the need for a meeting, subject to the approval of the Committee."

If we get a YES vote at the EGM to the above, I will speak to the clubs who want to play in The 6 Frame Format to see if they would prefer to play on a Tuesday or Wednesday.  Clearly if we played on a Wednesday then there is the scope for clubs to also retain a team on the Tuesday in The 8 Frame Format which would be great for the league.  I am prepared to do whatever is necessary to maximize the number of teams and divisions in the NHSL.

[Alan Cunningham]

The Tues/Wed alternatives might be great for the League BUT would mean that Arnold C.D. wouldn't be able to play in the 6 frame format on a Wednesday AND would only be able to field ONE team on a Tuesday UNLESS we were combine teams A, B & C (8+6) = 14, ie 2 teams of 7 playing in the 8 frame format.