Eastwood Handicap Snooker Tournament (22/11/09)

[Nav Hussain]

Hi All,

Nav Hussain lost to Ian in the semi finals. Score was 2-1 to Ian.

Last frame was very close but Ian missed a pot on the red and left Nav in a snooker. Nav managed escape the snooker but left the red for Ian who did enough to leave Nav needing a few snookers. Very well played Ian, match could have gone either way.

Giving a 7 start to Ian did mean something towards the end, some handicap starts were very high and had to battle hard not to drop a frame until the semi finals came along. Performed very good with my NEW PARRIS cue, average break is now 50+ comapred to 30+ with my old cue.

BUT BUT BUT.... the cue is slightly small for me and someone has already given me an offer to take the cue for good money, so may let it go and have another custom one made by Dave from Craftsman Cues (Made Paul Hunters Cue), he is top man !!!!

Bye for Now.

[Wayne Martin]

Nav - who reached the final apart from Ian?

[Daniel]

Wayne,

Lee Shanker who thrashed me (2-0) in the quarters then did the same to Danny in the Semi (2-0).  He was on fire in all honesty.  Who won it?

[Nav Hussain]

DANIEL, got bad news for you mate... Lee Shanker is on the Pro Tour.... He lost to Gareth Green 5-2... i think he won the derby under 21 and hit a 91 break.... SO guess what, i was on a minus handicap of -7 and he was of scratch..... IM TURNING PROFESSIONAL THEN.... if we gonna have people turning up and not telling us if they play on the PRO TOUR then all of us will get done over..

Jason Stockton was -14 and thats because he is up front and tells us that he plays the Pro Am... We will need to do internet research before allowing these guys to get away with it !!!  :angry:

[Steve Howard]

Hi Nav,
This is outrageous! that he didn't have the 'honesty' to come 'clean'and say he was on the 'pro-tour'!
'Ungentlemanly conduct' he sounds like the 'MARADONNA' & 'THIERRY HENRY' of the snooker world,in short,it has to be said,he knew this information,did not give it out,so just like the aforementioned footy players above he is a 'cheat',how can u live with that,only cheats  live with that! Besides,if you know you can knock in 90's.then why wouldn't u say you had a handicap?If you love this game,you abide by the rules,and play fair,and respect your fellow opponent,not conceeding you have a handicap,is without doubt,disrespectful,and know one can argue that!!

[Steve Howard]

This also begs the question . . .how many other tournaments has he entered and done this? He's done it once,and so,should not be given the chance to in effect 'cheat', (sorry for using that word) but this has to be 'nipped' in the bud,so . . .next Eastwood tournament,should he enter again,must be handicapped,so as to give other less talented players,at least a chance,otherwise you're simply not gonna' get players bothering to enter are you?
They're just gonna' say,"whats the point,i'm beat already"

[Nav Hussain]

The reason why no one bothers to check if the players are on the tour is because "we take their word". Had the organisers known of this, then im sure he would have been -21 or something, which makes sense.... i..e joe jogias handicap is something like -40, then its ok.

But not to mention anything like the Pro Am, that is not good !!!

[Steve Butler]

Let's not get carried away guys.  Lee Shanker is NOT a professional.  He plays on the PIOS tour.  The PIOS is open to all AMATEUR players throughout the world.  No professionals can play on the PIOS tour.

At the end of the season the top 8 players in the PIOS rankings are eligible to turn professional.  Lee Shanker is currently ranked 73rd on the PIOS tour so he is nowhere near professional status.

If I had been there I would obviously have known how good Lee is but I wasn't.  I agree that he could have said his handicap was a bit high compared to some of the other players competing at Eastwood, but it is officially the responsibility of the organisers to allocate handicaps.  Did anyone ask him if he was playing on the PIOS?

Lee is definitely not a cheat.  He is a very good snooker player who loves the game.  To say that he is a cheat and cannot play in the next tournament would be going too far.  Everyone knows how good he is now and his handicap can simply be adjusted next time.

For the record, the EASB do not take kindly to organisers of amateur tournaments who do not allow amateurs to play in amateur tournaments simply because other players think they are "too good".

If you want to know more about the PIOS, take a look HERE.

[Steve Howard]

Yeh,actually i sounded a bit harsh steve,that's not usually me at all!i just read Navs post and got abit heated,so i definately take that back,but i agree,but still stick to the part i said about, players must be 'up front' with handicaps!

I couldn't make sunday either steve,woulda' enjoyed it tho',never mind there's next time.
Did you enjoy your daughters performance then?

[Daniel]

Perhaps a ban is bit harsh if he is an amateur.  I agree he could have gave us a better idea of his ability, or mentioned what events he's been in though.

If he took 2 frames off Garath Green then I feel a bit better about not giving him a tougher match. :laugh:

Scares me a bit though about Mike Langdons Nottingham Grand Prix.  I'm partially resigned to going straight out in the first 2 weeks now, as I'm guessing a few PIOS players will be looking for a cash prize.  Scary but can't wait still  

[Mike Langdon]

I've actually stated that no PIOS or Main Tour Professionals can enter the Nottingham Grand Prix...guess i'll have to take the wrath of the EASB!  I personally would be quite happy for PIOS players to enter and was going to handicap them at -30 on top of their opponents handicap ie: if you went out to the maximum +28 you would get a 58 start in each frame against them.  The reason i chose not to let PIOS players enter the comp is that it might have a negative affect on the numbers of those entering who might think, what's the point i haven't a chance of winning....this was something i can't risk just to allow 1 or 2 PIOS players enter.

It's a shame the handicap issue has cropped up again when we should be talking about what a great turn-out there was at the Eastwood Handicap last Sunday (25 players is probably the best to date).

Anyway remember to put the first tournament of the Nottingham Grand Prix in your diary.....Sunday 31st January!

Cheers

Mike

[gary spencer]

as a regular attendee at willies in leicester, and seeing the likes of joe jogia and ben wollaston playing in this comp, they are both of -49, just because of there pro status doesnt guarantee they will win every comp.on the contrary they struggle to make the final due to the handicap they sometimes have to give .theyjustlike the extramatch practice, so if a player whos on the pios  cannot  enter these comps would be a disgrace, after all how do you get better at  the game if your not playing better players. james booth played joe  at willies and beat him yes he had a good start from him but joe can make centuries at the blink of an eye, and i believe he missed out on a maximum against james, but the end result was james won, and he played well to beat him, how much confidence does this give a player when they beat somebody of joes status.point taken on the fact that the pios player in question lied about his ability, but surely this should be a learning curve for people who run comps, not just to take it  on a persons word. let the people play, dont hold snookerback anymore than it already has been held back.

[Ross Wilkin]

I would like to add something as handicaps seems to be a never ending debate. It will always be a "best guess" inaccurate science. League officials and competition runners just do the best they can. If it was an exact science, being a highly inconsistent player, I should get 35 some weeks and maybe 7 on a good day. They can only do it on past results and as pointed out, it is altered next time round accordingly (as with Mikes system in the Grand Prix).

[Daniel]

As Gary says, it is a great experience to play very good players, although only getting a small start against a far superior player makes it almost impossible.  I think though it has to be down to organisers who they allow to enter as to offer a prize they do need to guarantee a minimum number of entries to run.  Obviously to have more competitions is hardly holding back snooker, it's pushing things forward, even if it means excluding some very strong semi-pro's.  The future for Notts amateur snooker is looking brighter than ever. :bravo:

Adding to what Ross says, I think what can frustrate strong players is that often weaker players like myself are given a start, but are MORE inconsistant than strong players so in one or three framers are capable of playing much better than our handicaps sugggest (OR MUCH WORSE).  If you have a -42 handicap or something, even a ton in a match is not going to be considered to be above par so it must feel like there is less of an advantage.  Also if you give away a big start a bad frame is a disaster.

[Steve Howard]

Lotsa' valid points here guys,and mike,you've echoed what i said in my earlier post,of players,who just won't play when they know their beat already.
I personally,will enter when i can,as many comp's as possible,as it's all experince,and it's been said many,many times over, that:
YOU LEARN FAR MORE WHEN YOU GET BEAT,THAN WHEN YOU WIN!
If you win, you naturally think you've done ok,tho' you may not have played anywhere near your best,but upon getting beat,you (or perhaps should do),reflect on why you got beat,could you have done something different,ie:played more safety,instead of trying to 'take on' every ball,in a desparate attempt to win?
It's down to the individual,how he reflects upon being beat by a better player,but you always have a chance in say,a 1 frame situation,of winning that frame.
So like someone pointed out,it is a shame the handicaps have come up again,but,if players were 'open' and 'honest' then there would be no issue to begin with.
It has been a learning curve,as gary points out,we will all learn from this,for future events.